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Evansville Hockey

FHL's Future Unclear?

213 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, Marksmen119 said:

The International Developmental Hockey League is a senior hockey league that will begin its inaugural season in October 2018 with teams in the Northeastern US and Canada.

The IDHL will serve as a feeder league to the FHL beginning in the 2018-2019 season. Players will be called up on a weekly basis to supplement the FHL rosters.

Shouldn't that be the other way around? Or its it senior in school?

Your confusion is justified.  A "senior hockey league" in the vernacular of Hockey Canada is an amateur adult league for former junior players who have "aged out" or players who simply want to continue in competitive hockey in their 20's and beyond.  USA Hockey typically refers to such leagues as "adult leagues."  I suppose we shouldn't expect hockey protocol to be observed nor much hockey knowledge to be displayed by someone associated with this wanna-be "feeder league" for the F(P)HL.

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12 minutes ago, JMC-STL said:

Your confusion is justified.  A "senior hockey league" in the vernacular of Hockey Canada is an amateur adult league for former junior players who have "aged out" or players who simply want to continue in competitive hockey in their 20's and beyond.  USA Hockey typically refers to such leagues as "adult leagues."  I suppose we shouldn't expect hockey protocol to be observed nor much hockey knowledge to be displayed by someone associated with this wanna-be "feeder league" for the F(P)HL.

Thanks. 

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The F(P)HL recently held their second dispersal draft in as many months. Back in June, the Berlin roster was dispersed to the remaining teams. Incase you didnt see the results, here they are :

Watertown Wolves trade future considerations to St. Clair Shores Fighting Saints for their 2 picks in the Berlin Dispersal Draft.

1. Carolina - David Brancik
2. Watertown - Jiri Pestuka
3. Cornwall - Matt Fuller
4. Port Huron - Nick Wright
5. Watertown - Josh Pietrantonio
6. Danbury - Matt Kaludis
7. Danville - John Celli
8. Carolina - Jan Salak
9. Watertown - Tyler Howe
10. Cornwall - Stanislav Vlasov
11. Port Huron - Edgar Ozolins
12. Watertown - Cameron Dimmitt

 

Yesterday, Aug. 9, the F(P)HL held the dispersal draft of the Danbury roster. These were the results. 

Syracuse, NY -  The Federal Hockey League held a dispersal draft on Wednesday for the players from the Danbury Titans. The complete dispersal draft order is as follows:

1. Carolina - Dalton Jay
2. North Shores - Ludlow Harris
3. Cornwall - Taylor Bourne
4. Port Huron - Matt Graham
5. Watertown - Matt Kaludis
6. Danville - Taylor Love
7. Carolina - John Scully
8. North Shores - Matthew Coleman
9. Cornwall - John Schiavo
10. Port Huron - Alex Johnson
11. Watertown - Vadim Subbotnikov
12. Danville - Craig Skudalski 
13. Carolina - Nikita Ivandikov
14. North Shores - Frankie Hart 
15. Cornwall - Stephen Inman 
16. Port Huron - Dean Yakura 
17. Watertown - Bobby Bowden 

 

 

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FHL Announces 2017-2018 Schedule (again)

Back down to six teams: Carolina, Cornwall, Danville, North Shore, Port Huron, and Watertown.  They've had to institute another unbalanced schedule, having run Berlin outta the League and after Danbury folded.  The credibility train keeps on accelerating down the slope.

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A few days ago I left a post on Winston-Salem's FB page about how they would lose $$$ from travel costs that can hurt their chances of staying a long time in the FHL. They answered me saying they plan to get 1150 paid (Idk if they meant gas $ or sth'rs). They also mentioned they wanted to use this season to prove to the SPHL that WS deserves a team again. One last thing they said was that they get the concessions for hockey along with all fairgrounds, pools and Winston Lake Golf Course Events. WS just needs a solid corporate sponsor and good season ticket fan base.

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Good info. Hope it works out for them.

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I'm sure the FHL loves their only southern team saying, "we're just doing this to get an SPHL team." lol

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On 8/30/2017 at 0:46 PM, Marksmen119 said:

A few days ago I left a post on Winston-Salem's FB page about how they would lose $$$ from travel costs that can hurt their chances of staying a long time in the FHL. They answered me saying they plan to get 1150 paid (Idk if they meant gas $ or sth'rs). They also mentioned they wanted to use this season to prove to the SPHL that WS deserves a team again. One last thing they said was that they get the concessions for hockey along with all fairgrounds, pools and Winston Lake Golf Course Events. WS just needs a solid corporate sponsor and good season ticket fan base.

As a resident of Winston-Salem, the only way they'll get the SPHL back is by doing some work on the Annex here.  I don't believe the ancient boards/glass have been replaced.  I asked on FB but the person responding to me couldn't even answer that question.  I plan to go to some games to give it a chance but my expectations are low.  Very low.

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4 hours ago, Will Sams said:

As a resident of Winston-Salem, the only way they'll get the SPHL back is by doing some work on the Annex here.  I don't believe the ancient boards/glass have been replaced.  I asked on FB but the person responding to me couldn't even answer that question.  I plan to go to some games to give it a chance but my expectations are low.  Very low.

 

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From: The Federal Hockey League > News

Quote

LAST OF LOCAL OWNERS DEPART WATERTOWN WOLVES

By Chris Fitz Gerald of the Watertown Daily Times ...


Watertown, NY - The makeup of the ownership of the Watertown Wolves has changed once again, this time with former local owners of the hockey franchise now out of the picture.

Once owned by a group comprised of local business owners and doctors, the professional hockey team was purchased and is owned exclusively by International Development Hockey League, LLC, a subsidiary of the Federal Hockey League.

Now the arrangement, which was announced in June, has changed even further, as team minority co-owners Stan Tibbles and Cullen Lundy are no longer affiliated with the team.

Tibbles and Lundy, who were one of several co-owners of the team under Top Shelf Hockey, were to serve as minority owners of the Wolves, who open their season in November, but both have decided to move on from their positions.

“I’m no longer involved,” Tibbles said Wednesday. “I decided that it was in my best personal interest to back away from the team and focus on family and my business.”

Both decided to bow out mainly because of the heavy financial burdens of running a pro hockey team, according to FHL Commissioner and Owner Don Kirnan.

“They basically said they had enough and they didn’t want to be involved, which is fine,” Kirnan said. “We offered them an opportunity to stay involved with the team because of their ties to the community.

“But it’s time for them to move on and we appreciate what they did in the past. Obviously we wish them the best.”

Tibbles expressed similar sentiments toward the new operators of the Wolves.

“I wish the new owners/managers the best of luck and much success,” Tibbles said. “Hopefully they can springboard off what we started with the Wolves.” ...

“The reason behind this is I can’t describe how much of a financial and emotional amount of energy that it takes to run this team,” Tibbles said in June about the change of ownership. “You can get worn out over time ... It was time for some of the owners to move on.”

But ultimately, Tibbles and Lundy, decided to follow the other owners.

Kirnan, who has owned the FHL since its inception in 2010, said he empathizes with Tibbles and Lundy.

“Well, I think it’s difficult from a financial standpoint,” Kirnan said. “Every owner that’s owned a team thus far has taken a hit and I think it’s difficult for anybody to go through that.

“I know what it feels like and it doesn’t feel good. You work hard and you actually lose money working hard, so you kind of get beat up, really. So I understand the whole thing with why people want to leave.” ...

“I feel bad for anybody that lost money in any team in the league, and unfortunately there’s a few people that did,” Kirnan said. “That’s one of the reasons the Danbury owner, who is a really nice guy who owns a car dealership. ... He left at the last minute for the same reason — it was just too much for him.

“So sometimes you get to a point where you can’t afford to lose anymore money and that’s the way it is in a lot of these things in minor-league sports.” ...

 

Read more at: http://www.federalhockey.com/news/last-of-local-owners-depart-watertown-wolves

 

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Just saw this picture of the attendance in the FHL shared on FB......

Screenshot_2017-11-27-15-12-08.png

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The North Shore Knights averaging 47 a night seems about right: 17 players, 2 coaches, 5 front office folks, and a posse of 23 Canadian Mounties hunting them down at their various "home rinks" to arrest the team owners.  ninja_hide.gif  ninja_hide.gif  ninja_hide.gif  ninja_hide.gif

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5 hours ago, JMC-STL said:

The North Shore Knights averaging 47 a night seems about right: 17 players, 2 coaches, 5 front office folks, and a posse of 23 Canadian Mounties hunting them down at their various "home rinks" to arrest the team owners.  ninja_hide.gif  ninja_hide.gif  ninja_hide.gif  ninja_hide.gif

lmao i saw 47 and had to check into this.  Look at this barn they are playing in.  No where for 47 people to fit.  Also, must have whistles constantly for hitting the ceiling.  What ive read this is a neutral ice site they have put some of the games at trying to generate fans.  Looks like its working haha.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=894234670727308&id=162632837220832#!/TheFHL/photos/a.295272113956903.1073741825.162632837220832/894234517393990/?type=3&source=57&refid=52&__tn__=EH-R

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lmao scroll down on the link.  That is the funniest comment ive ever seen . "If a team wins and no one sees it does it still count"? 

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6 hours ago, ChompNation said:

Carolina needs to make a move to the SPHL next yr

I had left a post on the Thunderbirds FB page before the SPHL season started. They answered me saying, "We are using this year to show the SPHL commish that we deserve to have a SPHL team next year". 

Of course this was awhile back.

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9 hours ago, ChompNation said:

Carolina needs to make a move to the SPHL next yr

 

2 hours ago, Marksmen3519 said:

I had left a post on the Thunderbirds FB page before the SPHL season started. They answered me saying, "We are using this year to show the SPHL commish that we deserve to have a SPHL team next year". 

Of course this was awhile back.

I am posting this sentiment again, because it seems everyone tends to want to overlook when I say this.

Winston-Salem WILL NEVER have a successful team, EVER.

#1 W-S is a trashy city with a small building in the parking lot of the main arena owned by Wake Forest.

#2 The Joel, as us locals call it, is in a bad part of W-S.

I do not like sounding negative, but in reply to Chomp, you are not a native or local of Winston. I am born and raised in Greensboro, NC, just 20 minutes or so East of Winston. I have lived in Winston. It's trash and will never be successful. The current team, is still not averaging the city's best attendance that I have seen.

Season Team League Atten.
1973-74 Winston-Salem Polar Twins SHL NA
1974-75 Winston-Salem Polar Twins SHL 2,210
1975-76 Winston-Salem Polar Twins SHL NA
1976-77 Winston-Salem Polar Twins SHL NA
1981-82 Winston-Salem Thunderbirds ACHL 1,973
1982-83 Carolina Thunderbirds ACHL NA
1983-84 Carolina Thunderbirds ACHL NA
1984-85 Carolina Thunderbirds ACHL NA
1985-86 Carolina Thunderbirds ACHL NA
1986-87 Carolina Thunderbirds ACHL NA
1987-88 Carolina Thunderbirds AAHL NA
1988-89 Carolina Thunderbirds ECHL NA
1989-90 Winston-Salem Thunderbirds ECHL 2,620
1990-91 Winston-Salem Thunderbirds ECHL 1,837
1991-92 Winston-Salem Thunderbirds ECHL 2,114
1995-96 Winston-Salem Mammoths SHL 1,332
1997-98 Winston-Salem Icehawks UHL 1,674
1998-99 Winston-Salem Icehawks UHL 1,949
2002-03 St. Pete/Winston-Salem Parrots ACHL 666
2003-04 Winston-Salem T-birds SEHL 772
2004-05 Winston-Salem Polar Twins SPHL 1,493
2007-08 Twin City Cyclones SPHL 1,180
2008-09 Twin City Cyclones SPHL 1,130
2017-18 Carolina Thunderbirds FHL 2,139

The numbers speak for themselves. And also, it's not hard to have great attendance in a league that has piss poor attendance figures. The FHL is the biggest joke in hockey  I've sen leagues like the FHL in baseball that were just as sad.

Not to mention, if W-S were to make a go at another legitimate shot for pro hockey, the budget would bankrupt them. On my last calculation, the average ticket price is right around $17-18 per ticket, based on the ticket pricing on the SPHL teams page.

So, we will call it $17.50 to be fair. The average operating budgets for the SPHL ranges between $900,000 to $1,200,000 a year. Also to be fair, we will call it $1,050,000 per year.

Even being this fair, the team would still lose money. The calculation tells me the team would need to average at least 2,142.8, or 2,143 per game to round it off.

The team would have an estimated $1,050,000 operating budget that would need to be collected over the course of 28 games at an average ticket price of $17.50 per ticket.

Even with the average attendance right now, the team would still not break even and to be putting money into a team that will not succeed.

Yes, this is not including concessions, merchandise, or even sponsorships; but, let me be honest here; the only real major sponsor the team could have is T.W. Garner, maker's of Texas Pete hot sauce, only due to the fact that RJ Reynolds would not be able to sponsor the team because it's a tobacco company, and the government has heavy regulations on their avenues of advertising.

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4 hours ago, SJSharkies4ever said:

 

I am posting this sentiment again, because it seems everyone tends to want to overlook when I say this.

Winston-Salem WILL NEVER have a successful team, EVER.

#1 W-S is a trashy city with a small building in the parking lot of the main arena owned by Wake Forest.

#2 The Joel, as us locals call it, is in a bad part of W-S.

I do not like sounding negative, but in reply to Chomp, you are not a native or local of Winston. I am born and raised in Greensboro, NC, just 20 minutes or so East of Winston. I have lived in Winston. It's trash and will never be successful. The current team, is still not averaging the city's best attendance that I have seen.

Season Team League Atten.
1973-74 Winston-Salem Polar Twins SHL NA
1974-75 Winston-Salem Polar Twins SHL 2,210
1975-76 Winston-Salem Polar Twins SHL NA
1976-77 Winston-Salem Polar Twins SHL NA
1981-82 Winston-Salem Thunderbirds ACHL 1,973
1982-83 Carolina Thunderbirds ACHL NA
1983-84 Carolina Thunderbirds ACHL NA
1984-85 Carolina Thunderbirds ACHL NA
1985-86 Carolina Thunderbirds ACHL NA
1986-87 Carolina Thunderbirds ACHL NA
1987-88 Carolina Thunderbirds AAHL NA
1988-89 Carolina Thunderbirds ECHL NA
1989-90 Winston-Salem Thunderbirds ECHL 2,620
1990-91 Winston-Salem Thunderbirds ECHL 1,837
1991-92 Winston-Salem Thunderbirds ECHL 2,114
1995-96 Winston-Salem Mammoths SHL 1,332
1997-98 Winston-Salem Icehawks UHL 1,674
1998-99 Winston-Salem Icehawks UHL 1,949
2002-03 St. Pete/Winston-Salem Parrots ACHL 666
2003-04 Winston-Salem T-birds SEHL 772
2004-05 Winston-Salem Polar Twins SPHL 1,493
2007-08 Twin City Cyclones SPHL 1,180
2008-09 Twin City Cyclones SPHL 1,130
2017-18 Carolina Thunderbirds FHL 2,139

The numbers speak for themselves. And also, it's not hard to have great attendance in a league that has piss poor attendance figures. The FHL is the biggest joke in hockey  I've sen leagues like the FHL in baseball that were just as sad.

Not to mention, if W-S were to make a go at another legitimate shot for pro hockey, the budget would bankrupt them. On my last calculation, the average ticket price is right around $17-18 per ticket, based on the ticket pricing on the SPHL teams page.

So, we will call it $17.50 to be fair. The average operating budgets for the SPHL ranges between $900,000 to $1,200,000 a year. Also to be fair, we will call it $1,050,000 per year.

Even being this fair, the team would still lose money. The calculation tells me the team would need to average at least 2,142.8, or 2,143 per game to round it off.

The team would have an estimated $1,050,000 operating budget that would need to be collected over the course of 28 games at an average ticket price of $17.50 per ticket.

Even with the average attendance right now, the team would still not break even and to be putting money into a team that will not succeed.

Yes, this is not including concessions, merchandise, or even sponsorships; but, let me be honest here; the only real major sponsor the team could have is T.W. Garner, maker's of Texas Pete hot sauce, only due to the fact that RJ Reynolds would not be able to sponsor the team because it's a tobacco company, and the government has heavy regulations on their avenues of advertising.

I was born and reared in Winston-Salem, my father still lives there, my mother's buried there. I disagree with the statements that W-S is a "trashy city" and it's "trash". I will more than grant you that the arena is small, outdated, and in a bad part of town; and that W-S has not supported, and probably won't support, hockey. Maybe, just maybe, if a new arena was built in a better part of town, hockey might succeed- the baseball team moved from the old Ernie Shore Field to a wonderful new facility near I-40 and are doing OK (but of course baseball has done well ever since the old days [when I was growing up] when they were a Red Sox minor league affiliate). 

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11 hours ago, SJSharkies4ever said:

I am posting this sentiment again, because it seems everyone tends to want to overlook when I say this. ...

I'm sorry, what was that again?  :whistle:

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15 hours ago, hockeydoc said:

I was born and reared in Winston-Salem, my father still lives there, my mother's buried there. I disagree with the statements that W-S is a "trashy city" and it's "trash". I will more than grant you that the arena is small, outdated, and in a bad part of town; and that W-S has not supported, and probably won't support, hockey. Maybe, just maybe, if a new arena was built in a better part of town, hockey might succeed- the baseball team moved from the old Ernie Shore Field to a wonderful new facility near I-40 and are doing OK (but of course baseball has done well ever since the old days [when I was growing up] when they were a Red Sox minor league affiliate). 

Okay, well there are certain parts that are nice, but for most of the area I lived and was in was trash. The city will never build another arena because why would they? They have no reason to. It was the main reason they sold Ernie Shore and the Joel to Wake.

The ONLY reason Winston built the new stadium for the Dash was to keep affiliated ball there. Ernie was too old and not suitable for A+ ball and the Dash were going to be relocated, same with the Hoppers before we got our new park in 2005.

9 hours ago, JMC-STL said:

I'm sorry, what was that again?  :whistle:

:doh:

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9 hours ago, SJSharkies4ever said:

Okay, well there are certain parts that are nice, but for most of the area I lived and was in was trash.

 

The city will never build another arena because why would they? They have no reason to. It was the main reason they sold Ernie Shore and the Joel to Wake.

The ONLY reason Winston built the new stadium for the Dash was to keep affiliated ball there. Ernie was too old and not suitable for A+ ball and the Dash were going to be relocated, same with the Hoppers before we got our new park in 2005.

 

So you lived in a part of the city that was "trash"- why generalize your 1st phrase to the whole city??? I agree with the rest of your post. 

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8 hours ago, hockeydoc said:

So you lived in a part of the city that was "trash"- why generalize your 1st phrase to the whole city??? I agree with the rest of your post. 

The only nice parts of W-S are outer lying areas, Hickory Tree not too bad, out towards Peacehaven. Most of downtown is not attractive, up along Peters Creek Pkwy, especially north of Silas Creek is not an ideal location, especially considering that houses the strip clubs.

I lived in Salem Crossing Apartments off of Link Road, and that was not a pretty area, but I loved my apartment.

What you are not focusing on is not everyone has money, and if you have money, then you can live in pretty and wonderful areas. When you don't have money, you have to live like slum!

So a generalization of the city is if majority of the city is not appealing, then majority does rule. Same thing applies to Greensboro. It's becoming trash because neighborhoods I grew up are shifting towards drug infestation and gangs moving in. I feel the worst area of Winston is that section of the Parkway leading from D'town to about around the Joel, maybe a little farther down. Even areas off 52 are NOT appealing at all.

P.S. I mean this with no disrespect intended, but we can debate this until the end of time. The problem with that is this is my opinion of the city and nothing you say will ever change my opinion of Winston. I am entitled to my own opinions and I do base them on observational facts rather than speculation. As such, you are entitled to your own opinions as well, and I feel that because you are more wealthier than i am, your views are a bit more obstructed by your options to live and entertainment.

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