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Evansville Hockey

FHL's Future Unclear?

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9 hours ago, RallyRabbit said:

Asheville's attempt wasn't at US Cellular Arena; that's a no-go and never will be again.  It was at a building at the Western NC Agricultural Center.  Not sure what they planned for boards or ice plant, but from what I understand, everything was worked out to make this happen except dates didn't line up.

What Southern Market are you hearing?  The only southern markets that have ice plants that could attempt this would be Greensboro, Hampton Roads, Richmond, Savannah?

Unless one opens up somewhere...?

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10 hours ago, RallyRabbit said:

Asheville's attempt wasn't at US Cellular Arena; that's a no-go and never will be again.  It was at a building at the Western NC Agricultural Center.  Not sure what they planned for boards or ice plant, but from what I understand, everything was worked out to make this happen except dates didn't line up.

What Southern Market are you hearing?  The only southern markets that have ice plants that could attempt this would be Greensboro, Hampton Roads, Richmond, Savannah?

Greensboro in the FHL? That''s a bigger joke than Greensboro ever hosting hockey of any type ever again. The Coliseum is way too big for the FHL, not to mention no dates due to Spartan basketball and other events. The Fieldhouse is NOT equipped for hockey and is solely used for the Swarm. The only other viable place that fits the FHL is the Ice House.

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3 minutes ago, Speedracer said:

One thing I'll actually give credit to the FHL: Best-of-5 finals.

They don't play in prime venues that have conflicting dates though!

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19 hours ago, RallyRabbit said:

Asheville's attempt wasn't at US Cellular Arena; that's a no-go and never will be again.  It was at a building at the Western NC Agricultural Center.  Not sure what they planned for boards or ice plant, but from what I understand, everything was worked out to make this happen except dates didn't line up.

What Southern Market are you hearing?  The only southern markets that have ice plants that could attempt this would be Greensboro, Hampton Roads, Richmond, Savannah?

That's correct about Asheville.... no dates in that center.

I don't want to say what southern market is in play right now, but hopefully things will work out with it and they can announce it.

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5 hours ago, SJSharkies4ever said:

They don't play in prime venues that have conflicting dates though!

:deadhorse:

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Just to fuel more speculation about Carolina and the FHL in general, Carolina GM Scott Brand mentioned in this interview that if the Annex in W-S was bigger, they'd be eyeing a jump to the SPHL. Also mentions some FHL expansion rumors, the process behind it, and what the place for the FHL and SPHL is. Pretty interesting stuff, and seems like honest answers.

 

https://hotsprotstakes.com/2018/05/06/on-brand-with-scott-brand/

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On 5/5/2018 at 12:20 PM, SJSharkies4ever said:

They don't play in prime venues that have conflicting dates though!

That's one excuse (among others) that Soskin used to yank the Demolition outta Hara Arena.  So I guess you could say the FHL is more "agile" than the SPHL:unsure:

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Long term hope for one ownership per team, or you do [it like the] Central Hockey League and have one ownership group for all teams. New procedures are being added to prevent new owners from being underfunded.

I really love that idea for the league. Have all owners own all the team and hire 1 commissioner to run the league. 

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4 minutes ago, center33 said:

I really love that idea for the league. Have all owners own all the team and hire 1 commissioner to run the league. 

A co-op ownership setup would be a neat idea--certainly a better idea than what the CHL actually was in the 2000s.

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4 hours ago, center33 said:

I really love that idea for the league. Have all owners own all the team and hire 1 commissioner to run the league. 

The FHL is pretty much there already: Soskin owns multiple teams, bullies the remaining team owners until they comply (or more often quit), and Kirnan remains the lifetime commish.  It's a short road to what they appear to have right now.  :hmm:

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28 minutes ago, JMC-STL said:

The FHL is pretty much there already: Soskin owns multiple teams, bullies the remaining team owners until they comply (or more often quit), and Kirnan remains the lifetime commish.  It's a short road to what they appear to have right now.  :hmm:

I’m still trying to figure out how the hell Winston-Salem happened, given the rank ineptitude of the rest of the league

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34 minutes ago, Aceface905 said:

I’m still trying to figure out how the hell Winston-Salem happened, given the rank ineptitude of the rest of the league

I think like Brand said in the interview, there's not a "bad" market, just bad marketing, or for most FHL teams like the departed Cornwall Nationals, no marketing. And I feel like so many teams in the FHL prior to WS just opened up shop and hoped fans would come just because, "Hey, it's hockey and people here like hockey!" Granted, WS is in a town that has more people in it than the rest of the FHL towns combined, but they did a lot of leg work and market to make people aware of the team. Now, that takes money, which WS had, and a lot of other new teams don't either don't have or don't account for when starting up, and I think that's the biggest issue with the league. It's "only" $90k-ish or so (from what I've heard) for all your expansion fees and that, so a couple guys who saved up some money could have a go at it, where as the SPHL and even things like the USHL and NAHL are six or seven figures for expansion fees, so you have a far smaller chance of a bad owner who might run out of money, or can't afford to market the team.

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On 5/5/2018 at 9:02 AM, SJSharkies4ever said:

Greensboro in the FHL? That''s a bigger joke than Greensboro ever hosting hockey of any type ever again. The Coliseum is way too big for the FHL, not to mention no dates due to Spartan basketball and other events. The Fieldhouse is NOT equipped for hockey and is solely used for the Swarm. The only other viable place that fits the FHL is the Ice House.

Sir, I recognize your disdain for the FHL and I'm not saying you're wrong.  I simply listed out areas that have an arena and ice plant.  It'll never happen.

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Keep in mind, part of the upgrade plans for the Annex is to add a bit more seating.  It should get it to right at 4000.

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19 hours ago, RallyRabbit said:

Keep in mind, part of the upgrade plans for the Annex is to add a bit more seating.  It should get it to right at 4000.

Brand said, "about another 1,000 then they'll consider jumping to SPHL"......fingers crossed.....would love to make a road trip without worrying about feeding our pets (multiple day trip). Last road trip I made Augusta was in the league.

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21 minutes ago, Marksmen3519 said:

Brand said, "about another 1,000 then they'll consider jumping to SPHL"......fingers crossed.....would love to make a road trip without worrying about feeding our pets (multiple day trip). Last roast I.made Augusta was in the league.

The other side of it though, is they're doing 2200 or whatever it is, at absolute rock-bottom prices for tickets because the league's others costs are so low. I wonder how much it affects attendance if they do upgrade and jump to the SPHL, and they have to bump tickets up say $5 a seat. So having 4000+ seats is all well and good, but you still have to fill them, and that gets tougher at a higher price point for minor league hockey. Yes, the SPHL is much better hockey, but some are only going to see that price increase and decide they aren't paying it. Granted you make up for that with more corporate help and probably more league help from the SPHL, but there's a lot that goes into it. I'd be curious to hear an interview with people who ran teams that made the jump from lower leagues up, like from the old UHL/IHL to the ECHL or something and what all is needed for that transition.

Personally, his idea about the FHL and SPHL working together is what intrigues me. This idea that the FHL has that they and the SPHL are both on equal footing is laughable and we all know it, shoot, I think they know it too, but I truly think there's a need for each, and need for each other. The SPHL needs guys when injuries or call-ups happen, and the FHL is a place for those guys to stay in game shape rather than sitting at home or playing men's league. Even if you don't have an actual agreement, but maybe the FHL adjusts its schedule and starts a couple weeks after the SPHL so you can get the guys who were cut or something to round out those rosters and raise the level of play.

 

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36 minutes ago, Marksmen3519 said:

.....would love to make a road trip without worrying about feeding our pets (multiple day trip). Last roast I.made Augusta was in the league.

You feed your pets roast?  :dontgetit:

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16 hours ago, TroopSupporter42069 said:

The other side of it though, is they're doing 2200 or whatever it is, at absolute rock-bottom prices for tickets because the league's others costs are so low. I wonder how much it affects attendance if they do upgrade and jump to the SPHL, and they have to bump tickets up say $5 a seat. So having 4000+ seats is all well and good, but you still have to fill them, and that gets tougher at a higher price point for minor league hockey. Yes, the SPHL is much better hockey, but some are only going to see that price increase and decide they aren't paying it. Granted you make up for that with more corporate help and probably more league help from the SPHL, but there's a lot that goes into it. I'd be curious to hear an interview with people who ran teams that made the jump from lower leagues up, like from the old UHL/IHL to the ECHL or something and what all is needed for that transition.

Personally, his idea about the FHL and SPHL working together is what intrigues me. This idea that the FHL has that they and the SPHL are both on equal footing is laughable and we all know it, shoot, I think they know it too, but I truly think there's a need for each, and need for each other. The SPHL needs guys when injuries or call-ups happen, and the FHL is a place for those guys to stay in game shape rather than sitting at home or playing men's league. Even if you don't have an actual agreement, but maybe the FHL adjusts its schedule and starts a couple weeks after the SPHL so you can get the guys who were cut or something to round out those rosters and raise the level of play.

 

A tiered setup would be interesting. But aren't the salary caps in the FHL and SPHL still pretty close to each other? This would be something where the two sides would have to sit down together, open their books up, and figure out how best to mesh things up.

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17 hours ago, TroopSupporter42069 said:

The other side of it though, is they're doing 2200 or whatever it is, at absolute rock-bottom prices for tickets because the league's others costs are so low. I wonder how much it affects attendance if they do upgrade and jump to the SPHL, and they have to bump tickets up say $5 a seat. So having 4000+ seats is all well and good, but you still have to fill them, and that gets tougher at a higher price point for minor league hockey. Yes, the SPHL is much better hockey, but some are only going to see that price increase and decide they aren't paying it. Granted you make up for that with more corporate help and probably more league help from the SPHL, but there's a lot that goes into it. I'd be curious to hear an interview with people who ran teams that made the jump from lower leagues up, like from the old UHL/IHL to the ECHL or something and what all is needed for that transition.

Personally, his idea about the FHL and SPHL working together is what intrigues me. This idea that the FHL has that they and the SPHL are both on equal footing is laughable and we all know it, shoot, I think they know it too, but I truly think there's a need for each, and need for each other. The SPHL needs guys when injuries or call-ups happen, and the FHL is a place for those guys to stay in game shape rather than sitting at home or playing men's league. Even if you don't have an actual agreement, but maybe the FHL adjusts its schedule and starts a couple weeks after the SPHL so you can get the guys who were cut or something to round out those rosters and raise the level of play.

 

Both leagues should embrace who and what they are.  FHL should embrace that they are equivalent to "A" or "Short Season A" in Baseball, and SPHL should just embrace that they are the "High A" league.  Agreements between teams would be nice, heck, there is already a lot of movement between FHL and SPHL, so just embrace it as this point.

Like it or not, the FHL fills a void.  Winston-Salem is in that weird spot where they are too big for the FHL but at risk of not quite big enough for the SPHL.  It is what it is.  At the end of the day, the fans get to see hockey, we're entertained, the product isn't terrible.  So, it works for us.

Now the ticket prices are interesting.  There is a bit of overhead for SPHL.  Ticket prices only have to raise enough to cover enough so the owners either break even or make the profit they desire.  The question is, at near current prices, the lower Annex lease, etc; can they do that.  If you raise too much, fans stop coming and it'll look like the Polar Twins.  If don't raise enough, the team looks like their doing well and fold (like Richmond).  It is a balancing act.  To be honest, if this league works out, why move.  It's better for the SPHL, you have a local batch of players to fill out rosters in the area.  And if they do get Asheville at some point and some other areas, and fill out the Midwest and give Watertown something to work with, maybe the FHL has a place that fits for it.

 

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1 hour ago, Aceface905 said:

 But aren't the salary caps in the FHL and SPHL still pretty close to each other? 

The SPHL players get paid. Some FHL players don't get paid, no matter what the salary cap is.

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18 hours ago, JMC-STL said:

You feed your pets roast?  :dontgetit:

Auto correct.....I fixed it, but in sure they would of like it.

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On 5/7/2018 at 2:52 PM, RallyRabbit said:

Sir, I recognize your disdain for the FHL and I'm not saying you're wrong.  I simply listed out areas that have an arena and ice plant.  It'll never happen.

This has nothing to do with any "disdain" for the FHL. I could care less about that league. When someone mentions Greensboro, I respond. Greensboro will NEVER happen, I should know because I am from Greensboro. Matt Brown and Scott Johnson DO NOT want hockey back. And if hockey were to return, probably nothing less than ECHL. That is a 21,000+ seat arena for hockey. Even draping off the upper sections, the lower bowl would probably be bigger than any SPHL arena.

So, again, it is not for any so-called hatred, or dislike, or whatever other synonym you choose to describe my post, it is merely Greensboro won't ever happen.

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7 hours ago, SJSharkies4ever said:

This has nothing to do with any "disdain" for the FHL. I could care less about that league. When someone mentions Greensboro, I respond. Greensboro will NEVER happen, I should know because I am from Greensboro. Matt Brown and Scott Johnson DO NOT want hockey back. And if hockey were to return, probably nothing less than ECHL. That is a 21,000+ seat arena for hockey. Even draping off the upper sections, the lower bowl would probably be bigger than any SPHL arena.

So, again, it is not for any so-called hatred, or dislike, or whatever other synonym you choose to describe my post, it is merely Greensboro won't ever happen.

Being from a city does not make you any expert on the city.  Especially compared to someone that lives in the area still, regardless of where you are from.  Regardless of what you think, the Augusta SPHL team move to Greensboro almost happened despite all the above statements.

Again, size doesn't make a difference, it is lease, concessions profits and how you cover setup and break down of the rink that make or break a team.  It is a complete total cost of ownership.  If someone leased that coliseum for $1 and gave a team all concession profits, then a 25k seat coliseum could work for a low junior team.

 

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