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robard

SPHL referees

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I hear a lot of fans yelling about missed calls, missed offsides,etc. What’s the consensus on here? Are the refs bad or average? I see some missed calls but I don’t think it’s as bad as what I hear some of the crowd yelling about. 

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9 minutes ago, robard said:

I hear a lot of fans yelling about missed calls, missed offsides,etc. What’s the consensus on here? Are the refs bad or average? I see some missed calls but I don’t think it’s as bad as what I hear some of the crowd yelling about. 

Usually not as bad as the one we had last night in Roanoke calling 2 penalties he envisioned in his mind that never happened then when penalties did happen around the puck he wasnt even paying attention.  Then if it was a goal tonight but not called a goal, thats a pretty big screw up.  But i dont know for sure if it went in or not.

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Not as bad as reported by fans, board members.  It's about average in most cases.  There are a couple of officials in the league that have no business doing games.

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Just now, Greg81102 said:

Usually not as bad as the one we had last night in Roanoke calling 2 penalties he envisioned in his mind that never happened then when penalties did happen around the puck he wasnt even paying attention.  Then if it was a goal tonight but not called a goal, thats a pretty big screw up.  But i dont know for sure if it went in or not.

If you’re talking about the penalty where Love (I think) checked a Pensacola player and then got called for tripping then yeah that was bad! I saw the replay of the goal tonight that was called off. It looked like it crossed the line but was hard to tell. Like I said, aside from some bad calls/non-calls I don’t think it’s too bad. 

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2 minutes ago, Carey Mahoney said:

Not as bad as reported by fans, board members.  It's about average in most cases.  There are a couple of officials in the league that have no business doing games.

I hear fans calling for offsides constantly and there are not that many missed offsides calls. 

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Just now, robard said:

If you’re talking about the penalty where Love (I think) checked a Pensacola player and then got called for tripping then yeah that was bad! I saw the replay of the goal tonight that was called off. It looked like it crossed the line but was hard to tell. Like I said, aside from some bad calls/non-calls I don’t think it’s too bad. 

I wasnt even talking about the Love penalty.  I was talking about 2 of Witzler's penalties.  First interference penalty on him when the two players were playing the puck right in front of him and Witzler checked him but was called for a penalty.  Then on the video board they replayed the penalty of tripping to Witzel 10 times in slow motion and the guy fell down without Witzler even touching him.  That call was in OT.  Which made it 10 times worse.  You cant make a call like that in that crucial part of the game unless its 100% certain it was a real penalty.

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6 minutes ago, Greg81102 said:

I wasnt even talking about the Love penalty.  I was talking about 2 of Witzler's penalties.  First interference penalty on him when the two players were playing the puck right in front of him and Witzler checked him but was called for a penalty.  Then on the video board they replayed the penalty of tripping to Witzel 10 times in slow motion and the guy fell down without Witzler even touching him.  That call was in OT.  Which made it 10 times worse.  You cant make a call like that in that crucial part of the game unless its 100% certain it was a real penalty.

I will say the calls last night were pretty bad, some could’ve caused Pensacola to win. However, as a whole I don’t feel the officiating is any better or worse than other leagues. 

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3 minutes ago, robard said:

I will say the calls last night were pretty bad, some could’ve caused Pensacola to win. However, as a whole I don’t feel the officiating is any better or worse than other leagues. 

There are always going to be good and bad referees in every sport.  Nobody is perfect.  My only thing is I can take a no call better then i can take a referee calling a penalty that never happened.  If you make a no call it doesnt necessarily put a team in a hole like calling a phantom penalty does for two minutes.  Plus a referee making a no call can just be out of position and didnt see it.  If you call a phantom penalty you have no excuse at all, they shouldnt call penalties they didnt actually see.

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10 minutes ago, Greg81102 said:

There are always going to be good and bad referees in every sport.  Nobody is perfect.  My only thing is I can take a no call better then i can take a referee calling a penalty that never happened.  If you make a no call it doesnt necessarily put a team in a hole like calling a phantom penalty does for two minutes.  Plus a referee making a no call can just be out of position and didnt see it.  If you call a phantom penalty you have no excuse at all, they shouldnt call penalties they didnt actually see.

I agree 100%!

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6 hours ago, robard said:

I hear fans calling for offsides constantly and there are not that many missed offsides calls. 

I think it has a lot to do with fans misunderstanding of the offsides rule. They see an opposing player in the zone during a puck dump and start screaming their heads off.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, HockeyRoanoke said:

I think it has a lot to do with fans misunderstanding of the offsides rule. They see an opposing player in the zone during a puck dump and start screaming their heads off.

Yeah, there is definitely some lack of understanding of the rules by some very vocal fans, either that or they think if they scream it enough the refs will start calling it just to shut them up. My seats are at the glass pretty much on the blue line and I can't count the number of times I heard the scream offsides on perfectly clean entries. I also have a group around me (it may be the same guys) who scream delay of game every time the puck goes over the glass. I personally would love for the team to start putting some hockey 101 graphics up on the board, maybe that would shut some of that up. I know one of the teams does that, when a penalty is called they put up a graphic explaining what that penalty is.

As far as the refs are concerned I have to echo what Greg said, no calls are part of the game the ref can't see everything  (you do have to question how they miss some of them though) but I think the phantom calls are unacceptable.

Edited by vicvegas

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To summarize: There are three separate, but related, issues here; as have been pointed out above. 1) This is a developmental league that USA Hockey uses to "develop" their officials. I'm not sure if this is still the case, but it used to be the officials provided for this league were not subject to the same rule as in junior hockey where the officials could not be younger than the players they were officiating. That results in us seeing some very wet-behind-the-ears refs. And, as with the best players, the best officials get called up to higher leagues - leaving us with what's left. 2) Having only one ref in the vast majority of games means calls are going to be missed. Particularly, infractions that are committed behind the ref's back and when the ref loses sight of the puck in the goal crease. Plus, we are left with a single person's interpretation of the rules - which means some games go virtually penalty-free while others are stopped every few minutes for some perceived infraction. 3) There are many fans who are going to object to any call made against anyone on their team - whether justified or not - and to any non-call when the visiting team does anything perceived as "not nice" against the home team. That's just a part of of sports.

Since this is a league-wide concern, I'm going to move this to the SPHL League forum so everyone can feel free to contribute. 

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I know and played hockey with one of the refs in the league but he has not officiated a game since last year, which is good because he was as bad at reffing as he was playing hockey. 

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Read MacGuy's Issue 1). Keep in mind that the skills of the on-ice officials are gonna be commensurate (on the whole) with the skills of the players  (on the whole). And since the rules of the game vary so little no matter the level, you can't expect the SPHL officials to get 'em right consistently when the NHL officials are blowing their calls nightly. If the fans would consider these conditions, we could put more focus on the game itself.

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If you want better officiating, play in a better league.

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More officials who have called SPHL games have advanced to higher levels in hockey than any of the players in the SPHL and yes, that is a fact.

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36 minutes ago, AfghanPiehole said:

More officials who have called SPHL games have advanced to higher levels in hockey than any of the players in the SPHL and yes, that is a fact.

Jack! :beer:

 

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1 hour ago, AfghanPiehole said:

More officials who have called SPHL games have advanced to higher levels in hockey than any of the players in the SPHL and yes, that is a fact.

The ratio of players to refs alone makes this an enticing bet... I'm in, I disagree! :D

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You probably need to factor in all the other sources for players other than the SPHL - which would work against the number of players that can advance. How many sources, other than USA Hockey, are there for officials?

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5 hours ago, MacGuy said:

You probably need to factor in all the other sources for players other than the SPHL - which would work against the number of players that can advance. How many sources, other than USA Hockey, are there for officials?

I totally agree.  Players looking to move up the ladder to higher leagues has so much working against them.  They can outplay a signed player from a higher league drastically and still get way less playing time because its a development league and the affiliated team is obligated to play the prospects more then someone they signed from a lower league.  Just take a look at whats happened and still happening in Atlanta with Sean Bonar.  Its hard to move up in the ranks when teams care more about development then they do about winning the games they play.  To my knowledge, officials dont have any outside forces like the players do holding them back.

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20 hours ago, MacGuy said:

You probably need to factor in all the other sources for players other than the SPHL - which would work against the number of players that can advance. How many sources, other than USA Hockey, are there for officials?

That's true. The numbers aren't as beneficial if you're considering the bottlenecks to advance.

I inferred (probably inaccurately) that he meant the referees in the SPHL had, prior to their time as officials, played higher level hockey. So I was going off the idea that they'd all played hockey beyond the SPHL level then come back to be officials. And that most of them had done it. My straw man is a lot harder to believe than the much more reasonable idea that SPHL refs go on to higher levels more often then players. ;)

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