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ChompNation

SPHL expansion 2018-19

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10 hours ago, SJSharkies4ever said:

Here's the problem with that comparison; the NAHL is NOT professional, whereas the SPHL is semi-professional. Players in the SPHL are paid and the NAHL, the players are not. So, with that in mind, lower rentals for junior hockey with arenas, with money saved from player payroll with possible lower front office salaries, the team owners are able to invest more.

All the talk about installing ice plants, the ice plant system itself is NOT the most expensive part. It's the actual installation of one where basically a permanent full-size working one would require a lot of construction due to having to install the piping systems underneath the flooring, which would have to be torn up and redone. 

 

9 hours ago, PlannedObsolescence said:

Here are 2 problems with the above:

The SPHL is the Southern Professional Hockey League, not the Southern Semi-Professional League.

The SPHL players are professional, not semi-professioinal.

 A semi-professional athlete is one for whom sport is not a full-time occupation. They are not amateur because they receive regular payment from their team (company), but at a much lower rate than a full-time professional athlete. As a result, players may have (or seek) a second full-time job. A semipro player/team could also be one that represents a place of employment that only the employees are allowed to play on. In this case, it is considered semipro because their employer pays them, but for their regular job, not for playing on the company's team.

The boys don't have, and don't seek, a second full-time job during the season.

 

I'm not 100% on it, i'd have to do some research.  But i'm pretty sure the SPHL is a professional hockey league.  Semi professional is they don't pay you enough and you have to have a second job during the league's season.  An offseason job doesn't make a player semi professional.  They pay the housing in the SPHL so players don't have to have a second job during the season.  Only reason I know this is awhile back I remember semi pro teams were offering good paying easy jobs during the season as a reason to recruit the best players and it was deemed illegal.  Some players in the highest levels of sports have other jobs in the offseason.  That doesn't make them semi professionals.  Semi pro i believe you need to have a second job during the season to make ends meet.  Not just a second job in the offseason.  The SPHL players are a full time athlete until the season is over.  Semi Pro will have a game or practice then have to go to work or vice versa.  Like i said, i could be wrong but thats how i've always thought it was.

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The LNAH is the only league i know of and can find listed as a semi professional hockey league saying they make $150 to $400 dollars a game and is their only compensation.  Here is an article I found that touches on it a little.  Says in 2011 Donald Brashear was the only one who didn't have a second job outside the rink.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2011/03/01/sports/hockey/01hockey.html

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SPHL is most definitely not semi-pro. While a large portion of the players do work other jobs during the season to make a little extra money, Hockey is their primary profession during the season.

When you are talking about semi-pro sports, you are talking about teams made up of guys (or girls) who work 40 hour a week jobs and then go to practice 1 or 2 evenings a week and play games on the weekends and if they are lucky they will get payed enough to cover the expenses related to playing (equipment amd travel expenses to and from games). Some semi-pro leagues don't even get that, I played two seasons of semi-pro football right after high school and my only compensation was the team covered my registration fees for the league and provided a game day meal every week and that was more than some of the teams provided. Almost always semi-pro teams are made up of local players, and are little more than adult travel rec leagues.

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4 hours ago, vicvegas said:

... Almost always semi-pro teams are made up of local players, and are little more than adult travel rec leagues.

Like the FHL, then.  ;)

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20 hours ago, SJSharkies4ever said:

See, there is the problem. The definition you posted just proved the SPHL is a semi-professional league, by definition. They CANNOT make a living off playing in the SPHL. It is the reason most teams pay for the housing or assist in housing. They are at a lower rate than that of the ECHL, AHL and of course, the NHL. And despite most misconceptions, some SPHL players do actually have to seek employment after the season ends.

See, the SPHL is an independent hockey league, much like independent baseball leagues (e.g. Frontier League, Northern League, American Association, Can Am League and Atlantic League). Affiliated ball players are actually considered, for most, as full-time professional players due to being under a contract with the major league club.

Looking to avoid stepping on toes as a newbie here, but I have to take issue with the distinction between semi-pro and pro as being linked to affiliated versus independent. The only thing many lower-level affiliated baseball (rookie, Class A) players have over their independent brethren is that their paychecks are drawn from big league bank accounts. Low minor baseball players are paid less than $2,000 per month, and only during the season. Such a salary puts them below the poverty line, and likely forces them to get another job in the offseason. (Oftentimes it's lessons and clinics--still in baseball, but nevertheless a second job.) In contrast, I've known independent players who make a living just from their playing contract. Of course affiliated players are closer to the payday of a big league job, and the biggest bonus an indy player might expect is a second turn at the postgame meal trough, but that in and of itself doesn't make the former more "professional" and the latter more "semi-pro".

(Injecting the fact that the SPHL and other indy leagues may provide housing as evidence to being more semi-pro is kind of funny, too. Many affiliated ballplayers are left to pay for their own housing, and I've seen players live four and six to an apartment to cut costs. Considering the relative paychecks, it could be argued in many cases of the low minors that the so-called "semi-pro" indy players with host family arrangements are doing better for themselves than the "pro" players who cover their own housing.)

Perhaps a better distinction of a pro versus a semi-pro is to be made by the players themselves. If they consider their primary vocation to be as an athlete, then they're pros. If they make a living elsewhere and the sport isn't their career focus, then they are semi-pros. (In the case of a former Major League Lacrosse player I knew of, this might not work too well; he was an MLL player on weekends and a successful stockbroker during the week.) Now of course, that definition isn't convenient because we as fans don't get to make the distinction ourselves, but it still might be more accurate. Or perhaps we should just go with the idea that if you get paid to play a sport, you're a professional. I find the term semi-pro is usually used to just make a team or league seem less important than its players and fans prefer.

Sorry to distract from the expansion discussion, I can be a little sensitive to this topic.

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Welcome to the Forums, Liebo. That's quite an introduction. Looking forward to hearing more from you. (Especially if you're an Ice Bears fan! :thumbsup2:)

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Thanks, MacGuy. I've been checking in for a little while, and finally felt compelled to get involved.

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43 minutes ago, Liebo said:

Thanks, MacGuy. I've been checking in for a little while, and finally felt compelled to get involved.

Welcome to the forums Liebo. Have fun and this is a good place to get all the info.

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49 minutes ago, Liebo said:

Thanks, MacGuy. I've been checking in for a little while, and finally felt compelled to get involved.

Solid start!  Welcome!

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9 hours ago, Liebo said:

Thanks, MacGuy. I've been checking in for a little while, and finally felt compelled to get involved.

And so, you've fallen into our web ... spider.gif  :hockey:

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On 6/12/2018 at 7:29 PM, Liebo said:

(Injecting the fact that the SPHL and other indy leagues may provide housing as evidence to being more semi-pro is kind of funny, too.

Adding on to this excellent post, another way that logic falls apart is the fact that the ECHL 1. Covers housing 2. Doesn’t pay that much more than the SPHL 3. Is an affiliated league. So, they’re both pro and semi-pro at the same time?

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9 hours ago, Theoriginalalex said:

Adding on to this excellent post, another way that logic falls apart is the fact that the ECHL 1. Covers housing 2. Doesn’t pay that much more than the SPHL 3. Is an affiliated league. So, they’re both pro and semi-pro at the same time?

No, that logic does not fall apart because of this one main reason:

Professional: (of a person) engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime.

Semi-Professional: receiving payment for an activity but not relying entirely on it for a living.

Definitions are definitions for a reason, and generally not open for different interpretations.

SPHL weekly salary is $5,600 per week for the entire team, which roughly equates to just over $311 per week.

ECHL is $12,800 (for the 2017-18 season) which actually calculates at exactly $640 per week.

AHL (also comprised of actual NHL contracts) is $46,000 (2017-18 season) which equates to $2,300 per week.

As a result, the AHL and ECHL are more professional than the SPHL due to players are actually able to make a living off their salaries. The downside; however, is that the ECHL still can be classified as a semi-professional league due to $640 per week during the playing months may or may not be able to sustain one during the off season. That is open to one's interpretation. The AHL is by far a professional league because if I made around $2,300 per week, I'd be great.

Keep in mind though, players are still subject to income tax withholding just as with a regular 9-5 job.

By the way, $640 is more than twice what the SPHL pays.

On a side note, what actually separates the professional from the semi-professional is the fact that some SPHL players may never go any higher than the SPHL. ECHL players have a higher chance of reaching the NHL, or at the highest, the AHL.

Again though, I didn't say semi-professional to provoke an off topic discussion. So please, commence with expansion talk.

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12 hours ago, SJSharkies4ever said:

No, that logic does not fall apart because of this one main reason:

Professional: (of a person) engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime.

Semi-Professional: receiving payment for an activity but not relying entirely on it for a living.

Definitions are definitions for a reason, and generally not open for different interpretations.

SPHL weekly salary is $5,600 per week for the entire team, which roughly equates to just over $311 per week.

ECHL is $12,800 (for the 2017-18 season) which actually calculates at exactly $640 per week.

AHL (also comprised of actual NHL contracts) is $46,000 (2017-18 season) which equates to $2,300 per week.

As a result, the AHL and ECHL are more professional than the SPHL due to players are actually able to make a living off their salaries. The downside; however, is that the ECHL still can be classified as a semi-professional league due to $640 per week during the playing months may or may not be able to sustain one during the off season. That is open to one's interpretation. The AHL is by far a professional league because if I made around $2,300 per week, I'd be great.

Keep in mind though, players are still subject to income tax withholding just as with a regular 9-5 job.

By the way, $640 is more than twice what the SPHL pays.

On a side note, what actually separates the professional from the semi-professional is the fact that some SPHL players may never go any higher than the SPHL. ECHL players have a higher chance of reaching the NHL, or at the highest, the AHL.

Again though, I didn't say semi-professional to provoke an off topic discussion. So please, commence with expansion talk.

I defy you to ask any SPHL or ECHL player/coach/staff if they are professional or semi-professional. But then again, arguing with you is like :banghead:

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55 minutes ago, JMC-STL said:

Does that make Sharkies defied, or defiled?  :huh:

You of all people should know the rules of the forums- posters can't defile others on these boards without risk of censure and/or outright banishment. 

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1 hour ago, PlannedObsolescence said:

You of all people should know the rules of the forums- posters can't defile others on these boards without risk of censure and/or outright banishment. 

Hmmmm, guess we'd better get Volstate to spell that out in the Board Guidelines.  Unless there's member consensus that NO PORNOGRAPHIC MATERIAL or NO "FLAMING" OTHER MEMBERS is sufficient to preclude any & all future sullying attempts.  :naughty:

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